Monday, September 10, 2007

Happy 9/11/07 - Lest We Forget...

They collapsed under their own weight...

40 comments:

H Nicole said...

Tonight, the haunting vision of just one jumper that I accidentally saw a picture of immediately after 9/11 -- just one jumper, burned in my memory. His arms tucked behind his back as he dove head first. Thoughts of his family and friends who would see that picture. I immediately looked away and have never looked back since. Of all the images from that day, one summed up the horror for me in just a split second glimpse.

Talk about "never wanting to go there," just something about the jumpers that really gets to me more than anything. Maybe from my own memories of being on the observation deck of WTC2 way back when and wondering how horrible it would be to die from falling from so high up. What would I be thinking in those last 10 seconds?

Well tonight I finally "went there," almost accidentally (though many say there are no accidents) through your, as usual, informative link, Shoes, to stories of eyewitness accounts of the explosions.

At first, I stumbled upon only a bit of talk of jumpers mixed in with some of the eyewitness testimony of the explosions and immediately skimmed past the details, but then I went back and read, finally. Read every last detail, finally, and eventually found myself purposely seeking out more details, any details I could find about "the jumpers."

I hope the following passage does not upset anybody too much. It upset me tremendously, but I think in a good way, if there is such a thing.

From "We Will Not Forget"

http://www.chiefengineer.org/article.cfm?seqnum1=1029

"In a state of shock, Mike and the firemen watched as bodies struck the ground in front of them. "They were just bouncing off the ground right in front of us," he said, emotion filling his voice. "I saw people jumping before I came back in to the building," he said. "They were jumping, about one every minute, maybe every two minutes. Now you're talking one every five seconds hitting the ground".

"I said this is bullshit. Whatever the hell that was, I lived through that, and now I'm going to get killed by some guy jumping out of the building? You could hear them. You could hear them hitting the ground. It was like nothing you ever heard before. It was a very hollow, soft sound. And you knew exactly what it was. They must have seen the other building come down and just mass exited the building".

Shirley Heezgay said...

hnic: The Jumpers are a lingering, haunting part of 9/11. It is a testament to the will to survive, or rather, in their final moments, how one chooses to die.

There is a documentary about that image you're describing called "The Falling Man." It is about a film maker who is so compelled by that macabre photo that he sets out to find out who that Jumper was.

The entire film is tragic and heartbreaking and strangely, somehow cathartic.

My thoughts today are with Everyone.

moneysmith said...

Yes, the idea of jumping out of a building knowing you'll die is too horrible to contemplate. But I keep coming back to the same thought -- these deaths and all the others that occurred that day (and those that took place afterward because of 9/11) need to be vindicated by the TRUTH.

Watching the network coverage from six years ago on tv today (it's being re-broadcast tonight), a couple things stand out -- the anchors (Brokaw, Couric, et al) refer to the "war on terror," a phrase they apparently coined on the spot, and the need for military action. Not police or criminal investigation -- military action.

They also talk about the one person who could have done this -- Osama bin Laden, as though they knew on good authority who was responsible. This was only hours after the planes (or whatever) hit. Bush was still flying around, avoiding DC. No official statement had been released, and yet Tom Brokaw said we were in a "war on terror" and bin Laden was responsible.

Then there were his comments about how people in the Middle East hate us for our type of government and for our "freedoms" (yes, he actually said that!), and how our freedoms are going to have to be limited to keep us safe (!!!).

As a professional in a major news organization, he of all people should have known that there were a number of reasons why we were hated in the Middle East, but our "freedoms" were not high on the list, nor was the fact that the U.S. is a democracy -- or used to be, before Bush/Cheney.

Finally, he give the evening news a couple of great big plugs by chiding the audience several times with (paraphrasing) "Even though you think what happens elsewhere in the world doesn't affect you, this shows that it does." In the midst of mind-numbing horror, Brokaw can't resist blatant self promotion.

On top of it all, eyewitness after eyewitness interviewed on the show talks about the ongoing series of "explosions." And watching the towers fall, the dustification is so freaking obvious it's laughable. A steel and concrete building (three, actually) didn't just come apart and fall in pieces. They literally disintegrated -- turned into powder -- in mid-air.

Before anyone says, "Fire melts steel!" or "Fire weakened the steel," here's one request -- show me a precedent -- or even an antecedent. This type of collapse has not happened before or since.

And LB, don't even start. The opinions from the guys at the tractor store are not sufficient proof of anything. And your name-calling and insults are just sophomoric. Some of us are tired of stooping to your level when we're trying to have a serious discussion. Go peddle your cow pies elsewhere.

Lee said...

We had police & criminal investigations for the terrorist attacks that took place under Billy Boy's watch (remember those?) and IT DIDN'T WORK!

I also remembering hearing Billy Boy say that as soon as he heard about the attacks he knew it was bin Laden. Too bad he didn't realize bin Laden was such a treat when he was in office.

Just because buildings didn't go down like that before means what? There is a first time for everything.

Shoes4Industry said...

Again, enough with the "blame Clinton" crap. You will have to do better than that to convince us that this was not a massive cover-up.

"Just because buildings didn't go down like that before means what?" It means we have not been told the truth...

Shirley Heezgay said...

I'm sorry, but I have to say this out of respect to the people that died on this day six years ago....

Today, can't we just pause and ask why.

Wherever you stand on 9/11, whether you think it was real or covered up, whether you think terrorists did it or the government did, whether you believe the buildings just came down or that they were destroyed by evil masterminds....

...can't we just ask ourselves why the questions exist? Ask ourselves why are some so sure of their reasons?

And then ask is it enough? Are the answers or the excuses, the reasons or the fallacies enough to explain why 2996 Americans died on a single day?

I came back this afternoon to S4I for some kind of discussion on a thread titled "lest we forget." I know we're all angry and hurt, upset and betrayed and confused and frustrated. Today of all days, let's just remember.

Tomorrow, we can start again.

H Nicole said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

As usual S4I, you couldn't answer a straight question if your life depended on it.

Clinton bears more to blame about Terrorism than Bush will for the rest of his life.

It does no good to post historical facts on here because you can't acknowledge if it bit you on the butt.

The only thing Bush is doing is cleaning up the mess Clinton left us by letting the terrorists get away with mass murder and turning them loose. Mohammed Atta was IN CUSTODY until Slick and Fatty Notbright pressured the Israelis to
release him and others.

And MS, your comment about the "guys at the tractor store" only shows your own ignorance. If it wasn't for the guys on tractors in this country, you'd be eating seaweed and pine nuts....

ohh...and the DJI is UP over 5,000 points since 9-11. The economy is just "terrible"....pfffttttt

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

Just so happens I'm on the road with cable TVfor the first time in months.

O'Reilly tonight...9/11 Truth Movement...like anyone on here cares about the truth anyway other than me and about3 other people.

H Nicole said...

I agree, Shirley. Deleted my post until tomorrow.

Shoes4Industry said...

Repeating, this is NOT about Clinton or what happened before 9/11 but what has happened SINCE and the CURRENT administration's response and complicity. Bash the Clintons all you want but it has nothing to do with our mission here or 9/11.

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

Repeating....you have no sense of history, you have a single purpose, simple minded, outlook on anything that you deem to be important, while ignoring facts and history that led up to the situation we're in today. You can bash Bush all you want, but God forbid anybody bash the Clintons....sounds like somebody has an infatuation with them to me.

Shoes4Industry said...

Took the words right out of our mouth.

Go ahead and waste your time bashing the Clintons. We don't care if you said that the Clinton's flew the planes into the WTC, it still doesn't change the fact that the "official government conspiracy theory" makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

Try and stay on topic...

Thanks

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

http://tinyurl.com/25ccla

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http://tinyurl.com/2r4v6

http://tinyurl.com/ihu9

http://tinyurl.com/2jqqlw

http://tinyurl.com/2vhdr4

Clinton is the reason the WTC Bombings occurred. IF you would do any research in real history instead of you'd know the TRUTH.

Instead, you're just gonna' came back and say that Clinton has nothing to do with this site, and I'm a Clinton basher, and your other canned responses. HNIC is the only one who shows what might be an open mind, as opposed to the rest of you "Progressives" who are too afraid to wake up and make adult decisions based on fact as opposed to what Rosie, MoveOn, DKOS, and the rest of the nutballs spoon feed your simple minds.

And, I misspoke earlier about MS's ignorance about tractor guys. Ignorance is lack of knowledge. MS claims to have been "on a farm". Stupidity is having the knowledge and still doing the wrong thing.

"The opinions from the guys at the tractor store are not sufficient proof of anything."....Stupidity in action.

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

I'm on topic...just not how you want the topic to go, which just yanks your crank. This is supposed to be a blog about what caused 9/11. Your "government conspiracy theory is wrong" is just one aspect of the TOTAL picture of 9/11. You can't handle anything more than BUSH DID IT because you're afraid of anyone with any sense of reality.

H Nicole said...

Thanks, Shirley, for getting me back on track today. On my way to trying to find the documentary, I found this excellent article that pretty much maps a lot of my feelings, along with the feelings of all of humanity, apparently, on this picture and on the jumpers. Incredible. Cathartic, as you say.

The Falling Man appears to be Jonathan Briley, may he and all the other estimated 200 jumpers, as well as everybody else that day, rest in peace, as we remember:

http://www.esquire.com/features/ESQ0903-SEP_FALLINGMAN

Shoes4Industry said...

Sorry we don't buy your Clinton did it theory and we are not saying Bush "did it", but you can not deny he's impeded the investigation and capitalized on the deaths of 3,000 victims in New York, Washington and PA for his own messianic gains.

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

None of them will RIP, till ALL of their fellow Americans acknowledge who the real enemy is and, we, as Americans, do everything in our power to avenge their murders and do everything in our power to make sure all of humanity is free from the powers of oppression forced upon the weak by despots and killers.

IT IS THE DUTY OF THE STRONG TO DEFEND THE WEAK.

I am STRONG!!...are you?

Shoes4Industry said...

I am STRONG!!...are you?

As we used say in grade school,(which seems to be your level of humor)
"Odor isn't everything!"

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

The mere audacity that you would say (any) POTUS "capitalized on the deaths","for his own messianic gains", only shows that you are truly an idiot. I wouldn't even say that about Slick Willie, but you have shown by your own ignorance and acknowledgment of the facts of history, that you are one of the most shallow, trendy media fed, screwballs I have ever had the pleasure of cutting to slices.

You accuse me of name calling, ignorant farmer statements, but you turn right around and say "As we used say in grade school,(which seems to be your level of humor)
"Odor isn't everything!"....

well....when I was in grade school...you were the little woosie we didn't even bother with picking on...not only because you weren't worth the time and effort, but because by the time I got home, my old man would have whipped my ass for beating up a sissy boy who not only didn't know how to work, he always ran home to mommy...because his "feelings" were hurt....

You do nothing to respect the victims of 9/11. You insult them, their families, and every other true American.

Thank you.........

Lee said...

FYI: ABC is not releasing "The Path to 9/11" on DVD because the writer is trying to protect Hillary Clinton. Her husband's administration is depicted as being soft on terrorism.

Shoes: Maybe you don't think what happened before 9/11 is relevant but you are sadly mistaken. You only like to focus on the SINCE THEN and NOW because it is easier to blame Bush. If Gore had not LOST the election and had been the President that attack still would have occured.

Remember please that the attack happened on Bush's watch but it was planned on CLINTON'S WATCH!

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

WOOF!!!

Shoes4Industry said...

We're sorry but we're not buying "It's Clinton's fault" excuses.

He was impeached, out of office and out of power...Let it go, let it go.

It has nothing to do with what happened ON 9/11 and the government's "theory" of how the building's collapsed.

We are not here to defend the Clintons. They could have been behind the whole plot and it would not change the fact that we have not been told the truth about how the buildings REALLY collapsed.

Sorry, there must be other Clinton bashing sites you can troll.

And BTW, Gore did not lose the election.

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

For Pete's sake...your responses are so lame it's beyond sad. Take the blinders off and get with the program .

There is no theory as to how the towers fell. There's fact. They were hit with airplanes and suffered catastrophic failure.

The perpetrators were Islamic terrorists who started their plans under CLINTONS' watch. They bombed it once while he was POTUS and his lack of leadership skills allowed them to thrive and flourish.

You just hate GWB and it's that simple. You could care less about history or the facts when they run contrary to your twisted logic and beliefs.

Mooooo......

LifeBeginsAt200MPH said...

and Gore DID lose....it's called a FACT!!

Lee said...

And BTW oh yes, he DID lose.

Your not here to defend the Clintons? Could've fooled me.

moneysmith said...

No one has to "fool" either of you. You're already there.

Shoes4Industry said...

They were hit with airplanes and suffered catastrophic failure.

"Tell me about the rabbits, George."

Shoes4Industry said...

"1993 World Trade Center bombing (February 26, 1993) a car bomb was detonated by Islamic terrorists in the underground parking garage below Tower One of the World Trade Center in New York City."

Hmmm, let's think back, who was POTUS when the terrorists were planning this attack?

Oh, it must have been CLINTON'S FAULT, after all he'd been in office a whole month!

Lee said...

The 1993 was only ONE of the many that took place while Billy Boy was in office. OK it wasn't planned on his watch but what did he do about that one and the others? ZIP. Maybe he just decided to lay back and let the next president deal with his mess. He was too concerned about his "popularity". He wanted everyone to love him and love our country. And we were so loved by by the Middle East that we were attacked what? eight times during his reign?Yep, that sure does show how much respect they had for us while in was in office.

You might be tired of hearing "blame Clinton" but that's too damn bad. I'm tired of hearing "blame Bush". Because Billy Boy didn't take care of business Bush had to do the dirty work.

Shoes4Industry said...

And what "dirty work" exactly has Bush done? Are we safer? Is Al Qaeda weaker?

We don't think so.

Moving on...

Lee said...

The dirty work was going after them.

Do you think Al Qaeda would have been weaker if we HADN'T fought back? Oh, I forgot. We weren't supposed to make them mad by fighting back. We were supposed to keep taking their cheap shots. We played that role long enough under "you know who".

Shoes4Industry said...

Wiskey Tango Foxtrot?!???

Check your facts, Lee (or should we call you "Lennie?")

Shirley Heezgay said...

OH MY GOD!!!

Talk about blinders!

Look, pay attention to what is going on here. Do we like GWB? Not likely. Are we bashing HIM or his actions and administration. Sadly, both because so much of what George's personal crap is is infused into the current administration.

But check this out... if Jessica Rabbit was the POTUS and we were saying shit about her, then we'd have Disney and Hanna Barbera saying we were animator bashers.

The point is, regardless of who sits in office (Clinton, GWB, Jessica Rabbit) someone is always going to be distracted by the fact that these verbal attacks are going to be personalized by you and your sad little existence.

Your "clinton" arguments are the same as your perceived "gwb" bashing arguments.

The question is: has he done the RIGHT thing throughout his presidency as the CURRENT POTUS.

Ask yourself!! FGS! If YOU were the POTUS and your actions mirrored Georgie's (no more, no less), would you have done everything you could have done? Have you provided the truth to your fellow man?

Lee said...

WOW! Feathers are really ruffled here whenever anything negative is said about Clinton. You people continue to think it is OK to lay the blame on this administration but wheneve it is pointed out that Clinton had a part to play too, you become unglued.

"Do we like GWB? Not likely".
Therein lies the problem. He has been hated by liberals, first and foremost, because in their eyes he didn't really "win" the election. They have never let up on him since. The man never did, does or will do anything right in their eyes.

Do you really think that he (or any President) can always fully share everything with the people? Don't you think there is information that CAN'T be made public for our own good?

Shoes: Leenie for me. Wennie for you.

moneysmith said...

You're missing Shirley's point, lee, not that that's anything new.

And let me add this: If georgie is such an outstanding leader why are his approval ratings so incredibly low?

Finally, what the hell is a "wennie"?

Lee said...

MS: Bush's ratings have risen for the 3rd straigh month. His rating is now 40.2% (not good BUT gaining). That poll according to the Business Investors Daily although probably not as reliable as the POPULAR DREW CARREY SHOW.

I could ask you the same question: What the hell is a Leenie???

Shoes4Industry said...

It's "Lennie," Lee.

as in "The best-laid plans of Mice and Men go oft awry."

Lee said...

OK we got the Lennie straightened out. Misspelling on my part- you're a Weenie not Wennie.

No thoughts on the rise in Bush approval ratings?

Shoes4Industry said...

"Dead Cat Bounce."